What Kind Of Fuckery Is This? - UK Politics General Discussion | Page 514 | The Popjustice Forum

What Kind Of Fuckery Is This? - UK Politics General Discussion

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Baby Clyde, Apr 8, 2010.

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  1. There are a lot of friends of mine that simply cannot make their loan payments whilst at University, it goes a lot further than the tuition fee itself. Bringing back the maintenance grant, for example, is a necessity.

    Edit: and the idea isn't to flood the market with degrees, making everybody go to University. The idea is to allow poorer people the opportunity that richer people can afford at a whim, I don't know how anybody could be against that.
    mcuk, Overdose, mump boy and 2 others like this.
  2. SBK


    The BBC coverage of it this morning was awful. Focusing on the right wing media slant of him dragging us back to the 1970s...
    michaelhird and Eric Generic like this.
  3. Which loan are you referring to?

    Because the student loan company (onto which you can defer fees but also use for living costs) would never ask for repayments from a student while at university.

    Are these additional personal loans from private banks?
  4. SBK


    Yeah, the student loan company don't take payment until you're earning over the threshold, which I think is 21k these days?

    No one should ever take out a regular personal loan to go to uni, how would they pay that back on a full time course?
    Smooth Criminal likes this.
  5. Well to go on a slight tangent, speaking from personal experience, the student loans company definitely do take money from you if you are earning under the threshold and then when you inform them of their mistake take literal years to refund you the money.

    I remember getting a letter from them within a week after starting some shitty temp job that they knew I started earning (an amount definitely below the threshold) and said they would be taking a cut.

    Maybe my case was not the norm but I've heard of it happening to others too and I just assumed it's one of those sly things on their part that it's apparently my responsibility to inform them they shouldn't be doing this or they are going to do it anyway.

    This was during the time of the coalition for reference sake.
  6. SBK


    This has reminded me that I need to call the student loan company, I've been paying over £100 a month for fucking ages and I've no idea how much I'm actually paying off, as I've moved and can't login to their site anymore.
  7. By all means throw it out there. I got a means-tested grant (I started uni in 1997) and that seemed to work out OK for everybody.
  8. SBK


    I think education should be accessible for all. I'm all for free tuition, so long as it doesn't lead to the trend in the 00's of universities running tons of Micky Mouse degrees to meet Tony's 50% of 6th form leavers into degree courses target.

    That shouldn't be the aim, the aim should be those that have the ability should be able to enroll and not be charged a small fortune for as a reward for getting good grades.

    The university entry level needs to be set so we're not pissing away tuition on people who are there because it's free/cheap or seen as a right of passage, which is what it was back in 2005/6 when I went. People were there for the piss up - it was great, but you found the classes getting smaller and smaller as the course progressed because 2 out of 3 probably shouldn't have been there.
    Solenciennes likes this.
  9. Sorry, I meant rent payments. That's to do with maintenance grants.
  10. I don't think university education should be free. We actually have quite a, dare I say it, fair system. You don't pay it back until you can actually afford to start paying it back. Even if you collected £30,000 of debt, you won't get near to paying it off before it is automatically written off unless you are earning a significant amount. There are actually some countries which will be beating down your door to make that first repayment the day you graduate, regardless of whether you have found a job or not. That is unfair.

    Our country almost completely devalued the degree under the Blair/Brown mentality of "send 50% of 18 year-olds to university". It ignored whether or not people actually had a passion to do that subject (or if it played to their skills and vocations), and has led to the massive oversaturation of the graduate job market (where having a 2.1 is no longer enough, so has inadvertently fuelled the supply of people willing to take unpaid internships to differentiate themselves). I'd actually argue it has placed an inordinate downward pressure on salaries and working opportunities, that has contributed to the huge amount of dissatisfaction in the under 25s you see today.

    The fairest system (which admittedly does exist through various grants, but should be extended) would be to further subsidise tuition fees for those taking on degrees in in-demand areas (Maths, Science, Technology).

    I get weary with people just assuming the state is a bottomless pit of money. The Labour Party's mentality of borrow, borrow, borrow, pay for it later, is so dangerous. It's not Keynesian economics, it's stupidity (FYI - Keynes never advocated borrowing to boost your economy other than in a national economic crisis, he actually demanded that in times of prosperity, governments should run budget surpluses to eliminate national debt). National debt and spending is a perpetual Ponzi scheme which is going to collapse within our lifetime, and governments need to do their best to tackle the problem sooner rather than later.
    Solenciennes likes this.
  11. I just can't agree that the system is fair, despite what y'all keep telling us is 'minimal payments, when it is poorer people that have to take on debt at all. And I'm not particularly sure I feel painting them all with the brush that they just want to party and socialise helps either. There are many that are the first in their families to even go to University, myself included. That they have to be saddled with debt at all for aspiring to change their lives is not fair.

    I get it, the world isn't fair, life isn't fair. I just want a world where poorer people can aspire to improve their lives and the government can aid them in some capacity.
  12. But they wouldn't have to pay off the debt unless they had a certain wage anyway? So how can the debt hinder them?
  13. You don't pay back a penny of that loan until you earn £18,000.

    If university was made free for all, the increases in indirect taxation (and the knock-on effects of increasing taxes against business) would mean that the poorest (i.e. those earning under £18k) would end up seeing their costs of living and tax increase.
  14. I don't believe they should be free for all, just that, similarly to the maintenance grants which also should be brought back, earnings prior to education and family earnings should also be taken into account.

    What I don't believe in is a flat rate of £9,000~ yearly for education, and no maintenance grants for those that actually do require them.
  15. If a graduate is earning over £21,000 a year, they're not going to miss the small monthly repayments. Also, the loans don't affect people getting a mortgage or a credit card. However, I think the 6k hike in fees a few years ago was a joke.

    I think scrapping university fees altogether would be a mistake, it would encourage even more people to go and piss about for three years. As it is, I know a few people who went to university for the social aspect of things. One guy studied archaeology because he thought it sounded cool. He's been pulling pints in a pub for over a decade.

    I think the US has it worse when it comes to the cost of university/college.
  16. And I know a few people that come from working class families, desperately trying to use University to change their own life and future. Let's not shame.
    acl, Deleted member 22682 and Leopold like this.
  17. Tonight's panel on Question Time looks a bit shit.
  18. Tracey Ullman is going to have a field day with her.
    londonrain and Eric Generic like this.
  19. Let's rewind a bit and focus on the fact that university isn't (or rather, wouldn't be) free for all, but free for UK citizens who have been resident and educated in the UK for x amount of years and thus come from households that have been contributing to the UK economy and have a high likelihood of reverting all that acquired knowledge and expertise right back into the country. The notion that paying for university, or rather, education, and that debt isn't a big deal because you have to earn over the threshhold (as if you can't earn over 21k a year and still be broke as f***) to start paying it back.....I don't understand. All this other stuff about Blair's 50% target and Mickey Mouse courses and devaluing the job market blah blah...that's related but separate, and doesn't change the fact that rich and poor should be allowed, and able, to pursue their full potential without having to take finances into account.
    acl likes this.
  20. The centre ground of UK politics is now so far to the right that policy of free education is now seen as 'hard left' ??!!

    Give me strength
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