What Kind Of Fuckery Is This? - UK Politics General Discussion | Page 944 | The Popjustice Forum

What Kind Of Fuckery Is This? - UK Politics General Discussion

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Baby Clyde, Apr 8, 2010.

  1. A very outside perspective here, but from familiarity with a white settler colonial context (New Zealand) which is deeply mired in neoliberalism and whose mainstream left has never broken away from Third Way politics in the way that UK Labour has (yas Jacinda Ardern qween, but also blergh). BUT it seems, given the particular media and social dynamics in the UK especially, that literally any Labour leader would be torn to shreds regardless of their political leanings. I think the destruction of someone as benign as Ed Milliband is rather conclusive in that regard.

    Because of that, I think you should just choose whoever delivers better policy, because no Labour leader would ever be ~electable~ in the current climate. So between a more palatable, centrist leader with more Tory-lite policies to boot, and a supposedly very unpopular leader with policies that mark a cleaner break from both the overall and centre-left consensus in decades (and are actually, y'know, good), the choice seems... simpler.
    dirtypony, Cundy, Blond and 10 others like this.
  2. This is Labour's homepage for their No Place For Antisemitism program that Corbyn launched.

    This is an article by Corbyn explaining his thoughts on antisemitism within the party and his plan to tackle it.

    This is Labour's code of conduct on racism and antisemitism.

  3. Are you a pig or do you have something you’d like to say?
  4. Sam


  5. I guess the problem people on the left have when people attack Corbyn is that it feels like we can either have someone who is 'electable' or we can have someone who has socialist policies. While I don't write off the Blair/Brown governments in any way, and I think they achieved a lot and improved people's lives in many ways - but here was a government with the biggest majority in modern history and what did they do with it? Nothing terribly ambitious.

    And I feel, as a member, it's so hard to judge how the public will react. I think Angela Raynor's great, but maybe the 'general public' will think she's too young and too female and too common. I think Keir Starmmer is clever but dull, but maybe the public will think he's a safe pair of hands. So at the end of the day, I have to elect who I think has the best political stance. The pundits said Liz Kendell was the most electable, but I think she's an awful human being, so I couldn't really elect her as leader, could I?

    And I absolutely understand the frustration that Labour aren't doing better, but maybe it's just that we're living in changed political times. The last time anyone won a significant majority was 2005.

    As for the anti-semitism - I have absolutely no idea how widespread anti-semitic feelings are in the Labour, or the general public for that matter. But it just seems a stretch for people like Ian Austin to say 'I can't possibly vote for Jeremy Corbyn because of antisemitism, so Boris Johnson who is on record saying racist and Islamophobic statements should be Prime Minister' and who has been one of the 'people are concerned about immigration so we need to talk about it more' (ITS ALL ANYONE HAS BEEN BANGING ON ABOUT IN BRITAIN FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS)
    Cundy and Lost Boy like this.
  6. Amongts many other things

    Minimum wage
    Removed most hereditary peers
    Invested billions in NHS cutting waiting times by months if not years
    Invested billions in schools
    Civil Partnerships
    Repealed Section 28
    Repealed Ban of Gay people in military Legalised gay adoption
    Equalised age of concent
    Good friday agreement
    Sure Start
    Lifted 1million pensioners out of poverty
    Doubled over seas aid
    Cancelled 100% of poorest countries debt
    Human rights commission
    Made Bank of England independent
    Banned fox hunting
    Tax credits
    Decreased homelessness by 73 %

    Tony Blair was not a perfect PM but the idea that his government wasn't revolutionary is revisionist history.

    I'm old enough to remember both Major and Thatcher governments and Blair was day to their night. Modern, forward thinking, enacting policies that lifted up working people, while being a clever enough politician to bring the majority of the country (and the press) with him.

    If he hadn't gone of the rails with his support of the Iraq war he would quite rightly be a hero today but don't let that over shadow the transformation of this country that he oversaw.
  7. I have a Jewish, vocally Tory ex-colleague (who used to be a good friend) who is now posting “Labour is anti-Semitic” articles on a daily basis and arguing that anyone who voted Labour is complicit in institutional anti-Semitism... but also he is voting Tory at this election, doesn’t think their Islamophobia is anywhere near as bad as Labour’s anti-Semitism (and so that’s okay somehow), and refuses to vote Lib Dem because he thinks they “don’t respect democracy”.

  8. I quite honestly don’t even know where to begin. You can’t allow them to own all the good things they did without regarding the bad as though it was just ‘going off the rails’. Destabilising the Middle East (war criminal), thereby triggering immigration crisises that we are still dealing with today is not ‘going off the rails’.

    Saying “Tony Blair” is a war criminal isn’t forgoing some heroic legacy he deserves. It’s holding his decision to account, as we should. Poor Tony Blair, how will he ever cope.

    Basically OK boomer.
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
    Ashling92, Lila and stuaw like this.
  9. As I said, I think the Labour governments did a lot of good things, and I'm not particularly hung up on the Iraq War - I thought it was the wrong decision, and I campaigned against it, but I also think that the British people and government are naturally pro-war and so it was irrelevant who was in charge.

    However, to say it was a revolutionary government? I just think that's a stretch. The truly lasting policies probably will be devolution, peace in NI and the minimum wage. Compare it to what the Tories did to change the role of the state when they had successive governments from 1979-97.

    New Labour didn't try to re-fashion the state or to make the UK a Social Democracy, and in a way that's fine, because most governments are managerial and at heart they agreed with the way that Thatcher had redefined the role of the state. It's just feels a bit of a wasted opportunity
    Cundy and Lost Boy like this.
  10. LTG


    Also, for all the good that Tony Blair and Gordon Brown did, they didn’t win the arguments. Or even attempt to make them.

    So much of their legacy was ripped up by Cameron, Osborne and Clegg. Those Sure Starts, tax credits etc.

    They triangulated and got things passed while being a bit evasive about what they were for. They funded so much of what they did with PFIs because they wanted to meet the Tories’ economic pledges, which is part of the reason why hospitals and schools are fucked atm.

    Through Iraq and Alistair Campbell’s war of spin, the public’s trust in politics was destroyed. They caused a huge mess, and part of the vote for Brexit was against the political class.
  11. LTG


    When there have previously been days of coverage about Corbyn being disrespectful at Remembrance events for not bowing deeply enough etc, yesterday Boris Johnson put a wreath down upside down, but BBC Breakfast used footage from 2016 of him putting one the right way round today.

    Like this is such a small thing, but what’s going on?
    Cundy, Blond, Sam and 4 others like this.
  12. What's the point of these cunts again?

  13. The Brexit Party isn’t standing in any Tory-held seats, but will stand against every current Labour MP.

    That’s the election completely fucked then.
    Ashling92 and londonrain like this.
  14. Oh bollocks
    londonrain likes this.
  15. Yeah, this is a fucking disaster. Just throw me in the Thames already.
  16. Unless Labour and Lib Dems somehow now see sense and agree to work together, or there's a freezing nationwide cold blizzard that stops anyone aged 70+ from going out and voting... yeah, we're fucked.
  17. LTG


    If this splits the Leave votes between the Tories and BXP in seats Labour already hold, this could actually help Labour...
    Cundy, beyoncésweave, Lila and 3 others like this.
  18. Imagine if Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn had campaigned forcefully against Brexit like the majority of his party instead of hiding for the whole month.

    We might not be in this situation and he would be a national hero, win an election and be able to implement the socialist revolution he aspire to.

    Seems he'll get his way on Brexit but st what cost ? I hope he thinks it was worth it
    Baby Clyde likes this.
  19. LTG


    Corbyn campaigned for remain, but the media narrative was a Tory civil war. Dave v Boris.

    How would Johnson’s hard Brexit be Corbyn getting his way at all? Corbyn’s whipped for a second referendum numerous times, and has blocked two Brexit deals.
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