I think I already told you that I think that this conflict started already during/after WW1?
World Politics
- Thread starter shadedeflector
- Start date
he/him
They’ve been posting like a stan account or embarrassing brand for a few weeks now, they’re probably half of the ads on Twitter atm.
It's very Israeli playbook!
Also we need to stop using the word 'settler' and replace it with 'coloniser'. Israel supports colonisation, it is a colonising state, they are colonisers.
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No you’re right. I was actually hovering around typing that but that’s exactly what they are, colonisers.
he/him/basic cishomo
This bizarre mix of cringe and rage-inducing is unnerving as all hell, the complete and total lack of couth.
Something I'm wondering here - are the majority of Israeli's actually in favour of what is happening here? From what I understand Netanyahu's government is widely unpopular and it may just be my algorithm showing me what I want to see, but there seems to be a huge outcry from many Israeli's to stop it. They are playing very shady games with the media (again, apparently not unlike them), but this must be noticed by people in the country? One thing is for sure, this is going to haunt their reputation forever. Any government that allows horrendous war crimes like this to take place can surely never be trusted - they are acting like a hystrionic psychopath.
Depraved. Just think of all the people involved in producing and disseminating this. And their collective delusion and inhumanity. There almost aren't words.
Israel has a unity government. There is widespread support and no effective opposition.
He is deeply unpopular but not because of his genocidal policy towards the Palestinians.
he/him
I would recommend looking up how specifically Israeli Arabs are documenting what's happening. From what I've seen, the supremacist aspect of Israeli society has never been greater than it currently it is in this moment. Any mirage that Israel was not an apartheid state because it had Arab citizens has been shattered in the ultra-conservative realities of Israel.
I can't imagine the sheer terror Palestinians in Gaza must be feeling at this very moment. After having been victims of ethnic cleansing, IDF brutality and previous bombings, they are now going through hell again while governments around the world either stay silent or actively support this blatant act of genocide. I have seen videos of the horrific aftermaths of the bombings and the heartbreaking grief of people searching for loved ones or finding them buried under rubble.
Palestinians have been at the receiving end of Zionist terrorism continuously since the Nakba of 1948, when 800,000 Palestinians were expelled or fled from their homes. The Zionist army ethnically cleansed Palestine at the end of the British mandate to create the state of Israel on the majority of the land. Over 400 villages were emptied to make way for Zionist settlers. This is an important fact that far too many people don't know about. This 'conflict' did not emerge from a vacuum and it did not start on 7th October this year. This also isn't something that's been going on for 'centuries' as a battle of religions. This is settler-colonialism, plain and simple, and it's essentially a hundred years' War by Zionists on Palestine.
Israel occupied the West Bank and Gaza Strip (the two parts of Palestine that were not colonised in 1948) after the 1967 war. They never 'officially' became part of the state of Israel because this would result in the Palestinians living in these territories (many of whom were refugees from 1948) being granted citizenship. Instead, the Israeli state has slowly placed more and more Jewish settlers in the West Bank, despite the fact this is illegal under international law, with an end goal of driving out as many Palestinians as possible so the state can re-create the 'united kingdom of Israel' from the Bible. The West Bank has seen many fanatical settlers force their way onto Palestinian land. I have seen many videos from this year alone showing Israelis beating up Palestinians, harassing Palestinians, burning their crops, stealing their possessions and depriving them of their homes. Settlers have also burned crops and farmland. They are committing pogroms. It is infuriating that 'pro-Israeli' people willfully ignore this important aspect of the conflict. Palestinians have also watched their homes be demolished by the Israeli government because one of their family members is a suspected terrorist (not even someone found guilty). Leaving aside the obvious problem of defining 'terrorism', which other country in the world will destroy someone's home because of a crime their family member committed? I only know of Iraq under Saddam Hussein doing this.
Israel 'disengaged' from Gaza in 2005 because the Gaza Strip was not playing ball and proved too difficult for Israeli settlers to handle. Instead, Israel made Gaza into an open-air prison where Palestinians cannot leave without permits, which are difficult to acquire. Israel has also controlled the resources that come into Gaza for the past 18 years. Palestinians have died of cancer because they can't get permits to leave Gaza for medical treatment. They have also watched the sheer brutal terror that Israel has inflicted on Gaza with bombings (such as those in 2009 and 2014) and dropping white phosphorus on civilians, which is something they are doing again now.
I don't condone the killing of Israeli civilians, because I don't believe they are *all* responsible for the actions of the state - though a depressingly high number seem to support them - and I know for a fact that there are Israelis who have shown a genuine desire to acknowledge the wrongs committed against Palestinians. This however doesn't change the fact that 96% of the deaths in this conflict since 2005 have been Palestinians. It also doesn't change the fact that committing genocide on Gaza will not bring back the Israeli civilians killed on 7th October, and will only guarantee further retaliations from Palestinians in the future.
My head is swirling with hundreds of things to say about this. I have read a lot on Palestine-Israel and I still think there is so much more to learn about it. The rabbit hole goes very deep.
For anyone who is interesting in reading more into this conflict, I would recommend these books:
Palestinians have been at the receiving end of Zionist terrorism continuously since the Nakba of 1948, when 800,000 Palestinians were expelled or fled from their homes. The Zionist army ethnically cleansed Palestine at the end of the British mandate to create the state of Israel on the majority of the land. Over 400 villages were emptied to make way for Zionist settlers. This is an important fact that far too many people don't know about. This 'conflict' did not emerge from a vacuum and it did not start on 7th October this year. This also isn't something that's been going on for 'centuries' as a battle of religions. This is settler-colonialism, plain and simple, and it's essentially a hundred years' War by Zionists on Palestine.
Israel occupied the West Bank and Gaza Strip (the two parts of Palestine that were not colonised in 1948) after the 1967 war. They never 'officially' became part of the state of Israel because this would result in the Palestinians living in these territories (many of whom were refugees from 1948) being granted citizenship. Instead, the Israeli state has slowly placed more and more Jewish settlers in the West Bank, despite the fact this is illegal under international law, with an end goal of driving out as many Palestinians as possible so the state can re-create the 'united kingdom of Israel' from the Bible. The West Bank has seen many fanatical settlers force their way onto Palestinian land. I have seen many videos from this year alone showing Israelis beating up Palestinians, harassing Palestinians, burning their crops, stealing their possessions and depriving them of their homes. Settlers have also burned crops and farmland. They are committing pogroms. It is infuriating that 'pro-Israeli' people willfully ignore this important aspect of the conflict. Palestinians have also watched their homes be demolished by the Israeli government because one of their family members is a suspected terrorist (not even someone found guilty). Leaving aside the obvious problem of defining 'terrorism', which other country in the world will destroy someone's home because of a crime their family member committed? I only know of Iraq under Saddam Hussein doing this.
Israel 'disengaged' from Gaza in 2005 because the Gaza Strip was not playing ball and proved too difficult for Israeli settlers to handle. Instead, Israel made Gaza into an open-air prison where Palestinians cannot leave without permits, which are difficult to acquire. Israel has also controlled the resources that come into Gaza for the past 18 years. Palestinians have died of cancer because they can't get permits to leave Gaza for medical treatment. They have also watched the sheer brutal terror that Israel has inflicted on Gaza with bombings (such as those in 2009 and 2014) and dropping white phosphorus on civilians, which is something they are doing again now.
I don't condone the killing of Israeli civilians, because I don't believe they are *all* responsible for the actions of the state - though a depressingly high number seem to support them - and I know for a fact that there are Israelis who have shown a genuine desire to acknowledge the wrongs committed against Palestinians. This however doesn't change the fact that 96% of the deaths in this conflict since 2005 have been Palestinians. It also doesn't change the fact that committing genocide on Gaza will not bring back the Israeli civilians killed on 7th October, and will only guarantee further retaliations from Palestinians in the future.
My head is swirling with hundreds of things to say about this. I have read a lot on Palestine-Israel and I still think there is so much more to learn about it. The rabbit hole goes very deep.
For anyone who is interesting in reading more into this conflict, I would recommend these books:
1. The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine (Ilan Pappe)
This was the first book I read on the conflict and it opened my eyes to the events of 1948. This book explains what caused the flight of 800,000 Palestinians, which in turn allowed the state of Israel to be created. It also explains the politics in Europe and America that allowed this to happen.
Ilan Pappe is an Israeli professor and activist. His books and interviews are incredibly informative, though he is often denounced as a 'traitor' by Israeli society and now lives in the United Kingdom.
His other books I would recommend are:
* Ten Myths about Israel - A straightforward debunking of the most common Zionist myths and narratives.
* The Biggest Prison on Earth - An in-depth look at the occupied territories of Gaza and the West Bank.
* The Forgotten Palestinians - A history of Palestinians who live within the state of Israel.
* The Idea of Israel - An examination of the way the Israeli state influences narratives around the conflict in its education system, media and cinema.
2. The Hundred Years' War on Palestine (Rashid Khalidi)
This books works well with Pappe's The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine. Khalidi provides a background of the Zionist colonisation of Palestine from 1917 to 2017, and is useful for providing background into events after 1948.
3. Sharing the Land of Canaan (Mazin B. Qumsiyeh)
One of the best all-round books on the conflict, though a little out of date since it was published in 2004. Qumsiyeh covers topics such as the ancient history of the land, the debates over the DNA profiles of Israeli and Palestinian populations, the question of whether Israel can be considered to be a democracy and the violation of the human rights of Palestinians.
4. On the Arab-Jew, Palestine and Other Displacements (Ella Shohat)
This book is a collection of essays by Iraqi Jewish professor Ella Shohat. Her work touches upon an often overlooked aspect of the conflict, that of the Arab Jews. Traditional Zionist narratives claim Israel 'rescued' Arab Jews from 'antisemitic' Arab countries. Shohat argues that, for centuries, Jews in the Arab-speaking world experiences far more peaceful co-existence with non-Jews compared to Jews in Europe. This however changed with European colonialism and the Zionist movement which drove a wedge between Jewish and non-Jewish Arabs. She also writes extensively of her own experience of growing up in Israel and her family facing discrimination and racism as a result of being simultaneously 'Arab' and 'Jewish', even though the new politics of the mid-20th century prevented these identities from co-existing in a single person. Shohat's article "Zionism from the Viewpoint of its Jewish victims" is a must read.
5. State of Terror: How Terrorism created modern Israel (Thomas Suarez)
I found out about this book because a Rabbi on twitter recommended it. I'm currently reading it so I can't comment on the book as a whole, but it does shed light on some truly shocking aspects of the Zionist movement and the terrorists acts they committed in Palestine long before they established the Israeli state.
This was the first book I read on the conflict and it opened my eyes to the events of 1948. This book explains what caused the flight of 800,000 Palestinians, which in turn allowed the state of Israel to be created. It also explains the politics in Europe and America that allowed this to happen.
Ilan Pappe is an Israeli professor and activist. His books and interviews are incredibly informative, though he is often denounced as a 'traitor' by Israeli society and now lives in the United Kingdom.
His other books I would recommend are:
* Ten Myths about Israel - A straightforward debunking of the most common Zionist myths and narratives.
* The Biggest Prison on Earth - An in-depth look at the occupied territories of Gaza and the West Bank.
* The Forgotten Palestinians - A history of Palestinians who live within the state of Israel.
* The Idea of Israel - An examination of the way the Israeli state influences narratives around the conflict in its education system, media and cinema.
2. The Hundred Years' War on Palestine (Rashid Khalidi)
This books works well with Pappe's The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine. Khalidi provides a background of the Zionist colonisation of Palestine from 1917 to 2017, and is useful for providing background into events after 1948.
3. Sharing the Land of Canaan (Mazin B. Qumsiyeh)
One of the best all-round books on the conflict, though a little out of date since it was published in 2004. Qumsiyeh covers topics such as the ancient history of the land, the debates over the DNA profiles of Israeli and Palestinian populations, the question of whether Israel can be considered to be a democracy and the violation of the human rights of Palestinians.
4. On the Arab-Jew, Palestine and Other Displacements (Ella Shohat)
This book is a collection of essays by Iraqi Jewish professor Ella Shohat. Her work touches upon an often overlooked aspect of the conflict, that of the Arab Jews. Traditional Zionist narratives claim Israel 'rescued' Arab Jews from 'antisemitic' Arab countries. Shohat argues that, for centuries, Jews in the Arab-speaking world experiences far more peaceful co-existence with non-Jews compared to Jews in Europe. This however changed with European colonialism and the Zionist movement which drove a wedge between Jewish and non-Jewish Arabs. She also writes extensively of her own experience of growing up in Israel and her family facing discrimination and racism as a result of being simultaneously 'Arab' and 'Jewish', even though the new politics of the mid-20th century prevented these identities from co-existing in a single person. Shohat's article "Zionism from the Viewpoint of its Jewish victims" is a must read.
5. State of Terror: How Terrorism created modern Israel (Thomas Suarez)
I found out about this book because a Rabbi on twitter recommended it. I'm currently reading it so I can't comment on the book as a whole, but it does shed light on some truly shocking aspects of the Zionist movement and the terrorists acts they committed in Palestine long before they established the Israeli state.
I also recommend people read Salt Houses.
https://www.halaalyan.com/salt-houses/
https://www.halaalyan.com/salt-houses/
Salt Houses
Alyan’s debut novel explores a Palestinian family caught between present and past, between displacement and home.I agree, you summed up all the crimes of Israel perfectly. To be fair most nations have such or similar crimes in their past - the difference is that we don't expect such crimes today. And that we all rightfully condemn such crimes and call for a just solution. And Israel - except their youth (at least that is my impression) - doesn't seem to be willing to be part of the solution but they make it worse again and again.
I condemn their response to the Hamas progrom of the 7th of october. They have had the chance to stop this spiral of violence which they, too, brought to the world but they decided to stay within this spiral ...
But this
... please rephrase.
I mean do you think the killing of civilians could be justified if they don't have the values you would expect them to have although they didn't commit one single crime? And that you can decide if it's decent or not? And wouldn't this thought not also legitimise the killing of the Palestinians because they support their government as well?
Apart from that thought the killing of civilians is considered as a war crime.
And please they didn't only kill civilians, they murdered them, they slaughtered them and they tortured them: old women, young women and kids. And surely old men, young men and boys, too. Didn't you see the videos of the girls with the blood in the crotch of their pants? Can you even imagine what they had to endure? Did you see the cheering crowd? And don't forget the hostages and what they have to endure.
If we tell this story correctly we can't leave out that Hamas is a terror organisation with the aim to wipe out Israel. The progrom of the 7th October was one part, they have fired thousands of missiles since then and they use the Palestines, their civilians, as shields against the Israelis.
If you argue that terror comes from oppression I won't say anything against but it's no solution. For a solution oppression and terror has to stop.
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He/Him/His
What exactly about "I don't condone the killing of Israeli civilians, because I don't believe they are *all* responsible for the actions of the state - though a depressingly high number seem to support them" needs to be rephrased? The sentence doesn't condone killing. It doesn't state that all Israelis are responsible for the actions of the state. It acknowledges that a high number of Israelis support them.
What does your latest round of babble have to do with anything in that singular statement? Where is the killing of civilians being justified in that sentence? Is saying murder instead of kill that important? Doesn't seem worth hemming and hawing about. Why are you harping on about videos of Israelis in response to the user's statement? Why aren't you mentioning videos of Palestinian kids with head wounds? Why aren't you mentioning cheering crowds of Israelis trying to abuse Palestinian students? Why aren't you mentioning videos of Israeli citizens mocking Palestinian deaths?
And if you're reminding us not to forget the hostages, why aren't you acknowledging that the Israeli government has killed more Israeli hostages than Hamas during its war campaign? What is the purpose of you emphasizing that Hamas is a terror organization? Why do we need to remember that Hamas has "the aim to wipe out Israel" when Israel is a nation-state with the resources to literally enact Palestinian genocide as we're speaking?
What's your actual point?
Two Wrongs don't make a right.
It's become too easy for both sides in this conflict to dehumanise the other.
The Israeli hostages need to be released immediately and there needs to be a ceasefire on both sides - for humanity purposes in Gaza. So food, electricity, fuel et al services can functions again within Gaza.
Otherwise many people in Gaza will die and the seeds will be sown for another generation to be turned into violent extremists...and nothing will change.
If both sides keep responding to the conflict in the same way as before but expect a different result - then they will never progress pass this circle of violence...so sad
It's become too easy for both sides in this conflict to dehumanise the other.
The Israeli hostages need to be released immediately and there needs to be a ceasefire on both sides - for humanity purposes in Gaza. So food, electricity, fuel et al services can functions again within Gaza.
Otherwise many people in Gaza will die and the seeds will be sown for another generation to be turned into violent extremists...and nothing will change.
If both sides keep responding to the conflict in the same way as before but expect a different result - then they will never progress pass this circle of violence...so sad
I apologise if my sentence came across the wrong way. I don't see how I said that killing civilians is justified? I was trying to say that a lot of Israelis support the government's policies, but that doesn't mean they should be killed, tortured or kidnapped for that support. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Well I explained, and I gladly repeat it for you:
If you don't have arguments you find your solution in an insult or in belittling somebody?
Yes, I think that's important.
As it is a terror organisation and the government of the Gaza Stripe. If you start to agree with a terror organisation you're part of it.
Why didn't you advocate the Palestine question before the terror? Now - although it's still legitimate and - I agree - necessary - it's wrong without acknowledging the terror.
I live in a country where your statement could be classified as "anti-Semitism" and be accordingly criminally relevant. Still, I've been advocating the Palestine question for a long time but this latest terror act needs to be acknowledged. If you want I'm anti Israel politics as I'm anti Hamas. All in all, I'm with the Palestine civilians although they also support their government.
Thank you. With that, I can completely agree with your statement.
I completely support this statement. Thank you, most of all because you explained your background. I do understand the injustice and I support the Palestine people as you do.
I hope (even though terror should not be awarded) that now this conflict might get a just solution. Thanks to all the persons worldwide who demand justice.